Donn,
I think you’re missing my point completely. I think you’re not understanding that, in my view, ALL reports are biased one way or another and to keep quoting from them doesn’t dissuade me. Historical records are unreliable, in fact, ANYTHING that has EVER been subject to someone, sitting down, and writing their views is subject to that person’s bias. For instance, you keep saying Tibet has always fought against China and, according to the Chinese, that’s simply not true. They were separated by some treaty after a war, I believe WW I or WWII, but I’m not 100% sure...it could even have been the Opium Wars. They say Tibet has always been a part of China, even if for many generations they were just loosely connected. Taiwan doesn’t have a legitimate claim, not unless you’re interested in establishing another Emperor. Those guys left China and fled to Taiwan. That's like saying Miami Cubans have a legitimate claim to Cuba. Of course they don’t, they gave that up when they left their country. I, personally, don’t think anyone that leaves their country has a claim to it anymore. My grandfather didn’t have a "legitimate claim" to Belarus. He was an American, through and through, regardless of where he was born and he would have scoffed at anyone who said he had a claim to Belarus.
As for China's "Moral Authority" given our new proclivity to torture, render and hold people without a trial or legal representation AND preemptively invade sovereign countries and kill more than 100,000 innocent civilians, I’m pretty sure we don’t have much room to talk about "Moral Authority." The point I’m trying to convey to you is, that as long as you’re relying on second, third or even further down the list accounts, you’re subject to someone else's biased interpretations. Right wing, left wing, communist, capitalist, democratic, republican, fascist, anarchist they are ALL working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, year after year, to color historical and present accounts of events to suit their needs and agendas. As for Michael Moore, I’m sorry he bothers you, but he uses verified facts to back up his conclusions. Why do "his facts" bother you more than say, ummm... Pat Buchanan's facts? It’s all in the way you say it, the meat isn’t as important as the appearance. That’s just basic marketing principles, which EVERYONE is employing these days. So, until you get on a plane and go see for yourself, you’re just repeating what someone or some text or newspaper account told you, and who knows what agenda THEY were trying to promote?
While in China, I went into an internet cafe and Googled “Tianamen Square,” and there was the Wikipedia entry, completely unedited. That’s what I keep trying to get across to you. I run across more rules and regulations here than I do in China. In China, you want to buy a bootleg DVD? No problem, the local department store carries them, right next to the legal ones for about a third the cost. You want to open a restaurant? Go ahead, no one will stop you. You want to open a stand and sell something like Smiley Face Chairman Mao Watches, where he waves like Mickey Mouse (absolutely hilarious) at a stand right next to Chairman Mao's Tomb? Not a problem. In fact, I saw the crowd patrol police wearing and buying them. Traffic laws? In China? Nope, just traffic suggestions and no one is even enforcing those. THIS year, for the first time, I had to tell them where I was living, but apparently, that was only because of the Olympics. The four summers BEFORE that, they never asked and never cared. I have traveled freely, with my wife, ANYWHERE, without any restrictions. I’ve been to the most rural of areas, where they’ve never seen a white man before. I’ve stopped traffic because I was there. I got stares and ALWAYS the most pleasant of greetings. I spent a couple days in a tiny little farming village. I went into their farming houses and saw them caring for their animals. The school I work for said they love me so much that I can go anywhere I like and, for NEXT summer, I’m choosing Urumqi, the most remote city in China, bordering Mongolia. The population there is almost 90% Muslim.
Some of the friendliest people I’ve met in China were the Chinese Muslims... friendly, happy and enjoying complete religious freedom. The largest religious population in China, believe it or not, is Chinese Christians, something like 6 or 7 percent of the population followed by Buddhists and then Muslims. The majority of Chinese are atheists. I heard that the Chinese arrested a woman for trying to smuggle in bibles last summer and I was shocked. Not because she was trying but because, in her ignorance, I guess she didn’t realize you could buy bibles at any bookstore in China. They don’t care what religion you are but they REALLY do not like people proselytizing. For them, religion is a personal, private matter. I saw many Buddhist Monks in Guangzhou and I asked them about it. Basically, I was told, ANYONE can ask and they can tell anyone anything BUT, THEY cannot approach random people in the streets and try to push their religion on anyone. To me, THAT seems to be extremely reasonable. The BEST thing I like about China is that ALL churches MUST pay their fair share of taxes. They get NO tax breaks. I LOVE that.
Marx
Sunday, December 28, 2008
Sunday, December 21, 2008
Yellow Dog [Part 7]
Marx,
After I make a couple of “historical” points—keeping in mind you believe any study of history written by anybody is a useless waste of time—I’m going to discuss something of critical importance that undisputed history confirms, but that does not rely on the facts of history.
About Tibet and Texas. I think if Texas had continued to wage its war for independence from the United States for 14 hundred years, we probably would have let them go. The fact of the matter is the people of Texas ultimately chose to join the Union. The people of Tibet have never offered China anything but a war of resistance. China should have let them go. Alaska also chose to join the Union. Puerto Rico stubbornly refuses to join, but the decision has always been theirs in accordance with Article IV of the US Constitution. China’s position on Taiwan is also untenable. If you accept the claim of the mainland Chinese, then the converse must also be true: Taiwan has a legitimate claim to mainland China! They’re all Chinese, after all. Mao had all of the natural wealth of the mainland with which to work. His communist utopia never materialized. The Nationalists fled the mainland and created something great on a relatively tiny island with no natural advantages. Now like all authoritarians through history, the Chinese government wants to loot the tiny island and pilfer its success. It’s like Great Britain, France, and Spain trying to retake the Americas. We were once subject to these powers, after all.
Thanks for inviting me to China! Of course, I can not take you up on the offer. As I thought I made clear, L and I have grown our family. I have twin, 2-year-olds. Did you not get the pictures? You’ve never acknowledged them [preferring to keep our correspondence official, I guess], but they are my heart and my soul. I could never leave them...not even for a summer. Besides, L can’t work and run this entire household by herself, and I wouldn’t ask her to. Am I not being brave, friend?
Finally, I do not share your view that there is no reliable information out there. There are honest, objective reporters across the globe from every nationality, every political perspective. They write honest, well-documented books, too. There is the unofficial media of the blogosphere. There are people just like you and me posting their experiences from day to day across the globe. There is uncut, unedited video out there. To compare these people with that piece of filth Michael Moore is most cynical and disingenuous of you. Reported and recorded history has never been more reliable than it is today because there are so many hands from across the globe actually writing it.
But, I promised an argument that does not rely on empirical evidence. Those most important arguments address the core of human thinking, i.e. philosophy. Philosophy is metaphysics [Your answer to the question: What is the nature of existence?] and epistemology [Your answer to the question: How do I know what I know?]. Ethics is a product of philosophy [Your answer to the question: What should I do?]. The political and economic systems we create are a result of our conclusions about ethics.
The most widely accepted Code of Ethics across the globe is collectivism-altruism. It is the code preached by every faith, nearly every government. It is the code used to justify socialism and communism. It is the code referenced by every authoritarian regime in history. It is the code that, stated most simply, places the will of the community above the rights of individuals. It is the code that demands that individuals sacrifice their own thinking to the will of the collective. It is an immoral code that has resulted in every genocide in history, millions sacrificed for the “greater good” of the collective...whether they call themselves Nazis, Muslim Brotherhood, or the CCP, all share precisely the same core values. All place the will of the collective above the rights of the individual. Your right to your life, to the freedom of your own mind and the products of your genius and/or labor, are always in jeopardy where the collectivist-altruist code is widely accepted.
The moral code upon which this nation was built, Individualism-Egoism, has been under fire from the left [in the economic realm] and from the right [in the social realm] for a hundred years. There are few Individualist [classical liberals, like the Framers, if you prefer] left. Our code is the one that pronounces unequivocally that there is no greater good than absolute protection of your right to your life, to your liberty, to pursue your own happiness.
Given their history, the Chinese may never be able to achieve this moral ideal.
Donn
After I make a couple of “historical” points—keeping in mind you believe any study of history written by anybody is a useless waste of time—I’m going to discuss something of critical importance that undisputed history confirms, but that does not rely on the facts of history.
About Tibet and Texas. I think if Texas had continued to wage its war for independence from the United States for 14 hundred years, we probably would have let them go. The fact of the matter is the people of Texas ultimately chose to join the Union. The people of Tibet have never offered China anything but a war of resistance. China should have let them go. Alaska also chose to join the Union. Puerto Rico stubbornly refuses to join, but the decision has always been theirs in accordance with Article IV of the US Constitution. China’s position on Taiwan is also untenable. If you accept the claim of the mainland Chinese, then the converse must also be true: Taiwan has a legitimate claim to mainland China! They’re all Chinese, after all. Mao had all of the natural wealth of the mainland with which to work. His communist utopia never materialized. The Nationalists fled the mainland and created something great on a relatively tiny island with no natural advantages. Now like all authoritarians through history, the Chinese government wants to loot the tiny island and pilfer its success. It’s like Great Britain, France, and Spain trying to retake the Americas. We were once subject to these powers, after all.
Thanks for inviting me to China! Of course, I can not take you up on the offer. As I thought I made clear, L and I have grown our family. I have twin, 2-year-olds. Did you not get the pictures? You’ve never acknowledged them [preferring to keep our correspondence official, I guess], but they are my heart and my soul. I could never leave them...not even for a summer. Besides, L can’t work and run this entire household by herself, and I wouldn’t ask her to. Am I not being brave, friend?
Finally, I do not share your view that there is no reliable information out there. There are honest, objective reporters across the globe from every nationality, every political perspective. They write honest, well-documented books, too. There is the unofficial media of the blogosphere. There are people just like you and me posting their experiences from day to day across the globe. There is uncut, unedited video out there. To compare these people with that piece of filth Michael Moore is most cynical and disingenuous of you. Reported and recorded history has never been more reliable than it is today because there are so many hands from across the globe actually writing it.
But, I promised an argument that does not rely on empirical evidence. Those most important arguments address the core of human thinking, i.e. philosophy. Philosophy is metaphysics [Your answer to the question: What is the nature of existence?] and epistemology [Your answer to the question: How do I know what I know?]. Ethics is a product of philosophy [Your answer to the question: What should I do?]. The political and economic systems we create are a result of our conclusions about ethics.
The most widely accepted Code of Ethics across the globe is collectivism-altruism. It is the code preached by every faith, nearly every government. It is the code used to justify socialism and communism. It is the code referenced by every authoritarian regime in history. It is the code that, stated most simply, places the will of the community above the rights of individuals. It is the code that demands that individuals sacrifice their own thinking to the will of the collective. It is an immoral code that has resulted in every genocide in history, millions sacrificed for the “greater good” of the collective...whether they call themselves Nazis, Muslim Brotherhood, or the CCP, all share precisely the same core values. All place the will of the collective above the rights of the individual. Your right to your life, to the freedom of your own mind and the products of your genius and/or labor, are always in jeopardy where the collectivist-altruist code is widely accepted.
The moral code upon which this nation was built, Individualism-Egoism, has been under fire from the left [in the economic realm] and from the right [in the social realm] for a hundred years. There are few Individualist [classical liberals, like the Framers, if you prefer] left. Our code is the one that pronounces unequivocally that there is no greater good than absolute protection of your right to your life, to your liberty, to pursue your own happiness.
Given their history, the Chinese may never be able to achieve this moral ideal.
Donn
Sunday, December 14, 2008
Yellow Dog [Part 6]
Donn,
What I’m saying is that the old quote "believe only half of what you see and none of what you hear or read" is probably the most accurate thing I’ve ever read. Now, if you DON’T think that news reports, stats and the sort of information that you’re receiving second, third or even further down the list isn’t colored by what people want to see or what they want it to say, then I really don’t know what to say. I think it was Churchill that once said that "history is written by the victors."
China was hurt so badly at the turn of the century and during the Opium Wars and the imperialism of European countries that they have rarely been on the side of the "victors" and so have never been able to "write their own version of history." I never said that everyone is in cahoots with the United States, but I can say, unequivocally, that ALL the news we get is Euro-centric or Ameri-centric, and we get NO news from China that hasn’t been colored with that filter. And no, I was not in one place. I’ve been going there for four summers, one solid year. I’ve been to Beijing, Chongqing, Shenzhen, Fengjie (a small city and my wife's hometown), Xian, Yangshuo, Guilen, Guangzhou, Wangzhou and whole host of outlying small neighboring towns, and yes, I have been to Tibet. It isn’t NEARLY as bad as you've been told. I have seen farmers, been on the road, and basically have gone anywhere I want and no one has ever told me "no." On the Tibet issue, I'll tell you my wife’s point of view, which is probably the Chinese overall viewpoint. She says Tibet is as much a part of China as Texas or Alaska is part of the United States. How would WE feel if the Chinese started to demand WE free Texas? They also have poured BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars INTO Tibet building infrastructure and schools that did NOT get built during that brief time they were "independent but still part of China." They have videos and my wife’s brother was a soldier that served in Tibet, and he'll tell you that the majority of Tibetans are very happy the Chinese are more of visible source than they used to be. He will tell you about slavery and torture that were routinely being used during that brief time the Dalai Lama ruled Tibet. He will tell you there are really TWO types of Buddhists in Tibet and that, before the Chinese came, one subjugated the other. So, in their mind, they came to Tibet and freed the slaves. How would you like it if France told Lincoln after the Emancipation Proclamation "you must give the south back to Jefferson Davis and re-instate slavery." Would that be OK? They also do not believe that the Dalai Lama is the peaceful man that his image suggests. They say HE started the problems in Tibet before the Olympics to embarrass the Chinese government. Is it true? Who knows? But I look at western media with the same jaundiced eye. EVERYONE has an agenda and everyone has something they want to say and facts can be bent, twisted, altered and made to fit whatever it is you want to say...us, them, everyone. If you don’t believe me, simply watch any Michael Moore film and see the way he takes "facts" and uses them to say whatever he wants to say. The Chinese do it and so do we. Conservatives do it. Liberals do it. PETA people do it. Greenpeace, the CIA, the FBI, EVERYONE does it. Is European news better? A little but still biased and still with an agenda. Textbooks? The stuff you’re reading from and teaching from? What do YOU think? According to Chinese textbooks, Chairman Mao was their George Washington, a great man and the man that helped take China from a backward, third world country and put it on the path to explode to where it is now? Do YOU agree? I bet not, I bet you’re turning all shades of purple and livid at the very idea of what they’re teaching. Are they wrong? Who knows, history is biased accounts being reported by biased people. I look at historical records like I look at the bible, basically. Who knows what was really happening or what they were trying to say when it was written?
Don’t rely on me, Donn. If you think I’m wrong, go work in China a couple summers and you tell me what you think then. THEN, you'll be telling me what you saw and what YOU got from it. Here... go to http://www.englishfirst.com/trt/index.html and sign up. They have schools ALL over China. Next year, they’re sending me to Urumqi, an extremely remote city, but they have been accommodating and willing to send me anywhere I want to go. Be brave, go see, develop your own ideas and don’t rely on someone telling you something and then hoping that maybe, just maybe, there’s a kernel of truth in their words.
Marx
What I’m saying is that the old quote "believe only half of what you see and none of what you hear or read" is probably the most accurate thing I’ve ever read. Now, if you DON’T think that news reports, stats and the sort of information that you’re receiving second, third or even further down the list isn’t colored by what people want to see or what they want it to say, then I really don’t know what to say. I think it was Churchill that once said that "history is written by the victors."
China was hurt so badly at the turn of the century and during the Opium Wars and the imperialism of European countries that they have rarely been on the side of the "victors" and so have never been able to "write their own version of history." I never said that everyone is in cahoots with the United States, but I can say, unequivocally, that ALL the news we get is Euro-centric or Ameri-centric, and we get NO news from China that hasn’t been colored with that filter. And no, I was not in one place. I’ve been going there for four summers, one solid year. I’ve been to Beijing, Chongqing, Shenzhen, Fengjie (a small city and my wife's hometown), Xian, Yangshuo, Guilen, Guangzhou, Wangzhou and whole host of outlying small neighboring towns, and yes, I have been to Tibet. It isn’t NEARLY as bad as you've been told. I have seen farmers, been on the road, and basically have gone anywhere I want and no one has ever told me "no." On the Tibet issue, I'll tell you my wife’s point of view, which is probably the Chinese overall viewpoint. She says Tibet is as much a part of China as Texas or Alaska is part of the United States. How would WE feel if the Chinese started to demand WE free Texas? They also have poured BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars INTO Tibet building infrastructure and schools that did NOT get built during that brief time they were "independent but still part of China." They have videos and my wife’s brother was a soldier that served in Tibet, and he'll tell you that the majority of Tibetans are very happy the Chinese are more of visible source than they used to be. He will tell you about slavery and torture that were routinely being used during that brief time the Dalai Lama ruled Tibet. He will tell you there are really TWO types of Buddhists in Tibet and that, before the Chinese came, one subjugated the other. So, in their mind, they came to Tibet and freed the slaves. How would you like it if France told Lincoln after the Emancipation Proclamation "you must give the south back to Jefferson Davis and re-instate slavery." Would that be OK? They also do not believe that the Dalai Lama is the peaceful man that his image suggests. They say HE started the problems in Tibet before the Olympics to embarrass the Chinese government. Is it true? Who knows? But I look at western media with the same jaundiced eye. EVERYONE has an agenda and everyone has something they want to say and facts can be bent, twisted, altered and made to fit whatever it is you want to say...us, them, everyone. If you don’t believe me, simply watch any Michael Moore film and see the way he takes "facts" and uses them to say whatever he wants to say. The Chinese do it and so do we. Conservatives do it. Liberals do it. PETA people do it. Greenpeace, the CIA, the FBI, EVERYONE does it. Is European news better? A little but still biased and still with an agenda. Textbooks? The stuff you’re reading from and teaching from? What do YOU think? According to Chinese textbooks, Chairman Mao was their George Washington, a great man and the man that helped take China from a backward, third world country and put it on the path to explode to where it is now? Do YOU agree? I bet not, I bet you’re turning all shades of purple and livid at the very idea of what they’re teaching. Are they wrong? Who knows, history is biased accounts being reported by biased people. I look at historical records like I look at the bible, basically. Who knows what was really happening or what they were trying to say when it was written?
Don’t rely on me, Donn. If you think I’m wrong, go work in China a couple summers and you tell me what you think then. THEN, you'll be telling me what you saw and what YOU got from it. Here... go to http://www.englishfirst.com/trt/index.html and sign up. They have schools ALL over China. Next year, they’re sending me to Urumqi, an extremely remote city, but they have been accommodating and willing to send me anywhere I want to go. Be brave, go see, develop your own ideas and don’t rely on someone telling you something and then hoping that maybe, just maybe, there’s a kernel of truth in their words.
Marx
Sunday, December 7, 2008
Yellow Dog [Part 5]
Donn,
Ok Donn, you have to see the paradox in your letter, don’t you? I JUST got done telling you that all the stats, all the stories, practically everything you’ve heard or read about China are untrue and my own personal experiences have SHOWN me they’re wrong, and THEN, in order to disprove my point, you quote those very stats that I just got done telling you were pure propaganda. Here’s ANOTHER story of propaganda: I was IN China during the last "Tibetan Crisis." Of course, the Chinese did NOT censor CNN's coverage. I was reading and my wife looked over my shoulder and said: "What’s that?" I told her, it’s a CNN report showing a Chinese soldier beating some poor Tibetan Monk. She looked at the picture and said, "ummm, that’s NOT a Chinese Soldier." I said, "huh? the caption SAYS it is." She then showed me picture after picture of Chinese soldiers’ uniforms, and guess what? She was right. They were NOT Chinese Soldiers at all. I then started researching and it turned out that it was a Korean uniform and an old one at that. Basically, CNN was showing footage and pictures of ANY Asian soldier and passing it off as Chinese soldiers abusing Tibetan Monks. DUDE, you’re being lied to! I don’t really think this is a hard to point to understand but I'll try again. Everything you’ve read, everything you think you know has been colored, doctored and propagandized to further our own view of the world. So, quoting those stats really doesn’t further your point.
As for the view of "American Doctors" have no interest of curing but are more interested in getting you on some drug to help out the pharmaceutical industry, the Chinese doctor telling me that didn’t change MY view. I see it every day. I have personal experience after personal experience to demonstrate that point, The one that MOST comes to mind is the time took my wife to the doctors and was waiting and waiting and waiting. IN walked the Pharm Rep. He walked right in, threw around some cash and gifts and, lo and behold, my wife was given a subscription to a NEW birth control pill that just happened to be the one THAT rep was representing. Mind you, when it got my wife sick, the doctor wouldn’t even return her call. I should have sued her. I told my wife to dump the pills and we got another doctor who gave her a different script. It doesn’t take a genius to see these guys are more interested in THEMSELVES than they are in us.
Marx
Marx,
My stats and info come from international sources [including Chinese nationals]. Are you suggesting the entire world is out there trying to give China a bad wrap, that even al jazerah is in cahoots with the their friends the United States? Follow the link below, read the article [by a reporter who actually lived in Tibet] and watch the video. The video is presented by al jazerah.
http://article.wn.com/view/2008/04/08/A_Dirty_Game_started_behind_2008_Beijing_Olympics/?section=BigPhoto&template=cheetah-meta%2Fupper-block.txt
Or don't. But know this: the international free press is a far more reliable source than China's state-controlled media. You must know this. I have no great love for CNN, but perhaps they used archived video because it's nearly impossible to get out of the country with any real, damning video. The international press is not free to roam around China shooting video of state brutality. People witness the brutality. If they can get out of country, they tell their story. But, of course, they haven't any video. [By the way, this does not excuse CNN fraudulent use of archive video. I'm no fan of CNN as I'm sure you already know....especially CNN International.] Have you been to Tibet?
You must also know that life in Maoist China was an abominable failure...that's why the leftists lost power in the late 70s. There is no debate about where the best medical schools in the world are located, i.e. the USA. The China you are witness to is the result of free market reforms and a lot of help from the West, both that offered and that stolen. Many Chinese, particularly those who live in rural areas, have seen little change.
It's a huge country, Marx. Your experiences as a guest teacher give you a snap-shot of one or two communities. I've already acknowledged that I'm sure the locals are sweet and decent people. I'm guessing you've traveled a bit, but you are obviously a foreigner and would appear to anyone as a tourist. So, China treats its tourist well. That's a good thing. But it doesn't give you infallible insight into the plight of Chinese political prisoners nor on the plight of Tibetan monks. I'm not trying to rob you of any of your happiness. I'm not just being stubborn. I'm asking you to be real.
Your opinions are based solely on anecdotal evidence amassed over four summers as a guest in China. You've already made the point that nothing in the entire free world press is accurate, and I can assure you China's state-controlled media is not reliable...so that leaves us with no facts, no data. Without data there can be no proof. Without data there can be no debate.
I'd like to continue our discussion. I think I've learned a lot of interesting things about China. I'd like to know more. But if you're going to discard all of my "evidence to the contrary" without providing any data of your own, what's the point?
You know, I work in Nashville, but I live in Columbia, 45 miles south. I've lived in Columbia for five years, all year around. In those five years I have never witnessed a crime, I have never seen an arrest. When I drive down the street in my neighborhood people in their yards wave "hello" and oncoming drivers also wave. I too have witnessed a car accident. After the collision the driver of the car at fault jumped out of their car and rushed to see if everyone in the other car was OK. There was no arguing. Last year the wind blew down some branches in my front yard. Some of them were pretty big. I was struggling to cut them up and drag them off when a truck stopped and a guy I don't even know got out, grabbed his chainsaw, and went to work with me in my yard. When I offered to pay him, he refused the money. I came to find out that he was out driving around looking for people who needed help that day after the storm....All true stories, but, is there crime in Columbia? I'm sure. I've never seen it, but it's there. Are there nasty, mean people in Columbia? I'm sure, but I haven't met any. Is there a bad cop in Columbia? Chances are there is. One person's experience in a small town does not come close to telling the whole story. How can your limited experience in a country as huge as China tell the whole story?
Donn
Ok Donn, you have to see the paradox in your letter, don’t you? I JUST got done telling you that all the stats, all the stories, practically everything you’ve heard or read about China are untrue and my own personal experiences have SHOWN me they’re wrong, and THEN, in order to disprove my point, you quote those very stats that I just got done telling you were pure propaganda. Here’s ANOTHER story of propaganda: I was IN China during the last "Tibetan Crisis." Of course, the Chinese did NOT censor CNN's coverage. I was reading and my wife looked over my shoulder and said: "What’s that?" I told her, it’s a CNN report showing a Chinese soldier beating some poor Tibetan Monk. She looked at the picture and said, "ummm, that’s NOT a Chinese Soldier." I said, "huh? the caption SAYS it is." She then showed me picture after picture of Chinese soldiers’ uniforms, and guess what? She was right. They were NOT Chinese Soldiers at all. I then started researching and it turned out that it was a Korean uniform and an old one at that. Basically, CNN was showing footage and pictures of ANY Asian soldier and passing it off as Chinese soldiers abusing Tibetan Monks. DUDE, you’re being lied to! I don’t really think this is a hard to point to understand but I'll try again. Everything you’ve read, everything you think you know has been colored, doctored and propagandized to further our own view of the world. So, quoting those stats really doesn’t further your point.
As for the view of "American Doctors" have no interest of curing but are more interested in getting you on some drug to help out the pharmaceutical industry, the Chinese doctor telling me that didn’t change MY view. I see it every day. I have personal experience after personal experience to demonstrate that point, The one that MOST comes to mind is the time took my wife to the doctors and was waiting and waiting and waiting. IN walked the Pharm Rep. He walked right in, threw around some cash and gifts and, lo and behold, my wife was given a subscription to a NEW birth control pill that just happened to be the one THAT rep was representing. Mind you, when it got my wife sick, the doctor wouldn’t even return her call. I should have sued her. I told my wife to dump the pills and we got another doctor who gave her a different script. It doesn’t take a genius to see these guys are more interested in THEMSELVES than they are in us.
Marx
Marx,
My stats and info come from international sources [including Chinese nationals]. Are you suggesting the entire world is out there trying to give China a bad wrap, that even al jazerah is in cahoots with the their friends the United States? Follow the link below, read the article [by a reporter who actually lived in Tibet] and watch the video. The video is presented by al jazerah.
http://article.wn.com/view/2008/04/08/A_Dirty_Game_started_behind_2008_Beijing_Olympics/?section=BigPhoto&template=cheetah-meta%2Fupper-block.txt
Or don't. But know this: the international free press is a far more reliable source than China's state-controlled media. You must know this. I have no great love for CNN, but perhaps they used archived video because it's nearly impossible to get out of the country with any real, damning video. The international press is not free to roam around China shooting video of state brutality. People witness the brutality. If they can get out of country, they tell their story. But, of course, they haven't any video. [By the way, this does not excuse CNN fraudulent use of archive video. I'm no fan of CNN as I'm sure you already know....especially CNN International.] Have you been to Tibet?
You must also know that life in Maoist China was an abominable failure...that's why the leftists lost power in the late 70s. There is no debate about where the best medical schools in the world are located, i.e. the USA. The China you are witness to is the result of free market reforms and a lot of help from the West, both that offered and that stolen. Many Chinese, particularly those who live in rural areas, have seen little change.
It's a huge country, Marx. Your experiences as a guest teacher give you a snap-shot of one or two communities. I've already acknowledged that I'm sure the locals are sweet and decent people. I'm guessing you've traveled a bit, but you are obviously a foreigner and would appear to anyone as a tourist. So, China treats its tourist well. That's a good thing. But it doesn't give you infallible insight into the plight of Chinese political prisoners nor on the plight of Tibetan monks. I'm not trying to rob you of any of your happiness. I'm not just being stubborn. I'm asking you to be real.
Your opinions are based solely on anecdotal evidence amassed over four summers as a guest in China. You've already made the point that nothing in the entire free world press is accurate, and I can assure you China's state-controlled media is not reliable...so that leaves us with no facts, no data. Without data there can be no proof. Without data there can be no debate.
I'd like to continue our discussion. I think I've learned a lot of interesting things about China. I'd like to know more. But if you're going to discard all of my "evidence to the contrary" without providing any data of your own, what's the point?
You know, I work in Nashville, but I live in Columbia, 45 miles south. I've lived in Columbia for five years, all year around. In those five years I have never witnessed a crime, I have never seen an arrest. When I drive down the street in my neighborhood people in their yards wave "hello" and oncoming drivers also wave. I too have witnessed a car accident. After the collision the driver of the car at fault jumped out of their car and rushed to see if everyone in the other car was OK. There was no arguing. Last year the wind blew down some branches in my front yard. Some of them were pretty big. I was struggling to cut them up and drag them off when a truck stopped and a guy I don't even know got out, grabbed his chainsaw, and went to work with me in my yard. When I offered to pay him, he refused the money. I came to find out that he was out driving around looking for people who needed help that day after the storm....All true stories, but, is there crime in Columbia? I'm sure. I've never seen it, but it's there. Are there nasty, mean people in Columbia? I'm sure, but I haven't met any. Is there a bad cop in Columbia? Chances are there is. One person's experience in a small town does not come close to telling the whole story. How can your limited experience in a country as huge as China tell the whole story?
Donn
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