Yellow Dog [Part 18]

Marx wrote: What I can tell you is this, you want me to prove ANY point? Anything, I can find it. If I can’t find it, I can create it in Photoshop and lift a couple official looking seals and logos and post it on the internet and I guarantee I'll find a group of people that will completely believe it. Finally, I believe that ANY time you venture into fanaticism or extremes you’re dooming this country. We were created with Checks and Balances for a reason; we were created with forums for a reason. I believe our founding fathers wanted this country to be diverse and accepting. I believe our Congress and Senate is FAR too centrist. We need RAGING Liberals in Congress battling it out with hard core Right Wingers, ONLY that way can we arrive at a true consensus. Like I quote I once read said "a bird needs both its right wing and its left wing to fly straight". Our current politicians are one thing and one thing only, corporatists. By the way, the Chinese are extremely proud of their deliberative body, as they said to me, there is FAR more diversity in ours than in yours. They said we have hard, hard right left wingers going toe to toe with hard right wingers every day.

Marx,

Your views [once again] suffer from the belief in a commonly held misconception about the Framers and the constitution they created: that the Framers compromised their values in order to achieve consensus, that the Constitution of the US is the result of your "pastiche" principal. Politicians in Washington also believe that oil and water can be mixed to produce a palatable colloid. This is not at all what the Framers did.

The Framers NEVER compromised a core value: they compromised on particulars. For example: That we have a republican form of government was never debated; how to elect a president was. That we have a separation of powers, and especially an independent judiciary, was never debated; how best to ensure an independent judiciary through various checks and balances was. That we have a federal system was decided on day one; decisions about federal and state power are still being debated today. That our Constitution is amendable was never debated; how to amend the Constitution was. That government is dangerous was never debated; whether or not a national Bill of Rights was a necessary addition to the Constitution was.

Capitalism is a core value. Unfortunately, a couple of loop-holes in the Constitution [namely, the Commerce Clause and the Elastic Clause] enabled politicians over time to compromise this value. From Hamilton’s National Bank, to Lincoln infrastructure projects, to TR’s trust-busting, to the 16th Amendment, to FDR’s and LBJ’s socialism this country has been on a steady course to self-destruction by undermining justice in the economy. Property rights were a core value dating back to John Locke’s 17th Century treatise, if not “thou shalt not steal.”

A perfectly just system is not improved by compromising with evil and incorporating some injustice into the system.

Donn

Donn,

You are FAR too ingrained with a belief to see the fallacy in what you say. You now label things you do NOT believe in as "evil" and the things you DO believe in as "good"...THAT’S a problem, there are way too many grey areas out there to try and divide everything into good and evil categories. The way you DO it, a lot of people with good ideas will go by the wayside.

Marx

Marx,

No Marx. Evil exists. Your failure to acknowledge it, to identify it, to fight it will be your undoing. How does one compromise with an armed thug who has sworn to kill you because you drew a picture of Mohammad?

Donn

Donn,

You don’t but, what about all the wonderful, law abiding decent Muslims? Funny, ALL the Muslims I have met have been wonderful, decent people. By YOUR rubric, people that believe in Mohammed are evil. Sorry, I won’t join you there.

Marx

Marx,

Subgunaditch! How did you come to that conclusion? I gave one goddamned example of evil. Here are others:

>Any institution that denies a human being the right to think for himself.
>Any institution that forbids human beings the right to speak their minds.
>Any institution that forces a man to work for the benefit of others...charity must always be a private matter and a choice.
>Cruelty, torture
>Sloth
>ETC.

Donn